The Thoughtful Co. Interview Series - Part 2
Strategic Approach to Bring Out Long-term Changes
Q: How did you approach your very first corporate partner? What was your strategy at the very beginning? Did you target women-led companies or companies that mostly make or deliver products for women?
Jill: We actually started by targeting smaller- to medium-sized male-dominated industries such as engineering, naturally, with Sophie's background, and mining or oil and gas, where there aren't a lot of women already. But these firms are now at the stage where they really understand the value of women and want to bring more on. We're in this new era where people want to make the change and understand the cultural values and financial benefits of having women. For example, it increases share price performance and increases profitability.
All these companies now want women; they want women up at the top, retain them, and grow them, but are the companies willing to change structurally to do that? We're quite focused in Vancouver right now, and some amazing engineering firms here are definitely willing to do that.
But these companies have been set up in a certain way, and they're already profitable and doing well. It's hard for them to actually bring structural changes in HR practices to work better for women, things like parental leave and flexible work policy. Flexible work is a big one right now in the pandemic. I think the mindset is there, so now it's a matter of "Can we actually get companies to make the change?" And that's what we're trying to do: get them to make the leap.
Q: It's great to see how you strategized your approach from the very beginning. It'll be a long way to make the change, but it's important to make things happen on the ground.
Traditionally, there have been very few executive women in leadership positions, and it'll take maybe ten years to see tangible change, right? So how do you help companies and leadership, especially male executives, to be committed to that kind of long-term change? How do you persuade them?
Jill: I think that's a really good question. You're right: It's not an immediate thing that happens. And that's a tough part about what we do. You're not suddenly going to have a bunch of women executives just because you implement a parental leave policy. It could just be in our network in Vancouver, but I would say that there has been a pretty big shift in male executives' mindsets in terms of their goals for diversity.
Diversity is a big topic now, even from an investor perspective, and you should definitely be thinking about it. I think the question is, "Does that executive or board member really believe this? Or are they just doing it because it's a hot topic right now?" But no one we've talked to has said outright that they don't care about or don't want diversity. So I think that's a great shift. Even if somebody is not personally there yet, companies have to get on board with this, which is awesome.
As you said, this will be a longer-term change, and it's frustrating sometimes. When I'm doing this work, I want to see women executives right now. But it will take time, especially in firms like engineering firms, where they don't have a pipeline yet. We just need to get women engineers to the manager level. Then in a few years, they'll be at the next level, and then eventually, at the executive level. What we're trying to do is set the structures up so women actually go through that whole journey without leaving.
A lot of women leave their jobs when they become a parent. Parental leave is an area where we want to make sure it works for women. It's not going to be a super quick change. But we have seen some of the bigger companies are already starting this work, which is great. Hopefully, we can help some of the smaller ones get there.
Interview date: February 9, 2022
Interviewed by Jiyoon Yoo and Doyeon Kim
